Answered

600w Panels

Posted by haga

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:04am

Guys,
     I just got a hold of 6 pieces of  100 W renogy solar panels at 12v each.  I would like to use these for my shed that has no power currently.  The main current draws are my small pancake compressor and table saw.  What would you buy to get this up and running?  I know I need an MPPT charge controller, thinking 4000 Watt inverter (like Magnums), and batteries.  This tools are for hobby / DIY home repair use only, so I don't plan on running this all day for commercial use.  Thanks in advance.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 12, 2018 at 7:02am

A 2000w inverter would be plenty large enough... No need wasting the extra money.. I have run my table saw off of my 2000w inverter many times and still run the 24 7 appliances at the same time...


Like you said you will need a CC, batteries, also you will need fuses, shut off switches if you want ease of use and large enough wire....

Posted by playersz28

Sep 12, 2018 at 8:15am

How far is the shed from a building that has hydro? Solar is nice and all but if I had a nearby source for electricity I'd run an overhead or buried feed before I spent money on batteries/CC/inverter. Also watch the inrush load on the compressor when hot, my 5gal one will trip a 15a breaker if it tries to start when hot and I have a couple of shop lights on.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 12, 2018 at 10:33am

playersz28 Avatar

Sep 12, 2018 at 8:15am playersz28 said:

How far is the shed from a building that has hydro? Solar is nice and all but if I had a nearby source for electricity I'd run an overhead or buried feed before I spent money on batteries/CC/inverter. Also watch the inrush load on the compressor when hot, my 5gal one will trip a 15a breaker if it tries to start when hot and I have a couple of shop lights on.


How big is your solar system I forget? Inverter an all... Thanks

Posted by Haga

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:04pm

Tattoo, the only reason I mention 4000 Watts is because I see everyone complaining that their 2000 watt inverter doesn’t have enough juice to deal with the startup power for a compressor or a table saw. I have the ridgid hybrid table saw and not a small contractor saw if that makes a difference.

And I am too far from any other power source to run long lines.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:12pm


Sep 12, 2018 at 6:04pm Haga said:


Tattoo, the only reason I mention 4000 Watts is because I see everyone complaining that their 2000 watt inverter doesn’t have enough juice to deal with the startup power for a compressor or a table saw. I have the ridgid hybrid table saw and not a small contractor saw if that makes a difference.

And I am too far from any other power source to run long lines.


Yes it does matter what the draw is at start up... The thing to do is buy a Kill A watt meter and see what the draw actually is...


Also remember you'll need enough reserve power to run a 4000w inverter and it's draw what ever it is....


This won't make a difference with you after thinking about it but it might.... My system stays on 24/7 because of several items... You can cut yours off when you leave I guess?


An inverter uses a good bit of power even when your not using it...


That's why I have a 500w and a 2000w inverter...

Posted by tattoo

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:14pm

Also what CC and how many and what kind of batteries are you thinking about buying?

Posted by Haga

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:40pm

Looking at the Morningstar and still figuring out the batteries, but looking at lithium. What would you recommend? Should I leave it at 12volts or wire it up for higher voltage?

Posted by tattoo

Sep 12, 2018 at 7:10pm

If you can afford lithium buy them they are great but I sure can't afford them.... I have lead acid deep cycle batteries and they work just fine for my usages... They aren't cheap to me but they are much better than an automotive battery...

24v is better than 12v but it cost more for the components... So it's up to you...

Posted by grumpy

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:53am


Sep 12, 2018 at 6:40pm Haga said:


Looking at the Morningstar and still figuring out the batteries, but looking at lithium. What would you recommend? Should I leave it at 12volts or wire it up for higher voltage?


Just found a great deal at VMAXCHARGETANK.COM for first time customers 10% off plus discount for multi battery purchase and free delivery in COTUS

Posted by Haga

Sep 13, 2018 at 3:14am

Thanks a lot grumpy, I just need to figure how much Ah I need before making that purchase.

Tattoo, I’m fine with the 24v extra cost as long as it’s wirth it. Just figured it’ll be a little more efficient since converting back to 110v.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 5:18am


Sep 13, 2018 at 3:14am Haga said:


 Tattoo, I’m fine with the 24v extra cost as long as it’s wirth it. Just figured it’ll be a little more efficient since converting back to 110v.


From what I've read it's worth it.... The closer you can get to 120v the better you are... 48v is even better....


But with that said.... I haven't had any problems with my 12v system doing anything I need it to do... It all comes down to cost and what you are willing to spend...

Posted by playersz28

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:15am

tattoo Avatar

Sep 12, 2018 at 10:33am tattoo said:

playersz28 Avatar

Sep 12, 2018 at 8:15am playersz28 said:

How far is the shed from a building that has hydro? Solar is nice and all but if I had a nearby source for electricity I'd run an overhead or buried feed before I spent money on batteries/CC/inverter. Also watch the inrush load on the compressor when hot, my 5gal one will trip a 15a breaker if it tries to start when hot and I have a couple of shop lights on.


How big is your solar system I forget? Inverter an all... Thanks


640w panels, 448AH of battery & 2000w PSW inverter

Posted by playersz28

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:17am

tattoo Avatar

Sep 12, 2018 at 6:12pm tattoo said:


Sep 12, 2018 at 6:04pm Haga said:



Tattoo, the only reason I mention 4000 Watts is because I see everyone complaining that their 2000 watt inverter doesn’t have enough juice to deal with the startup power for a compressor or a table saw. I have the ridgid hybrid table saw and not a small contractor saw if that makes a difference.

And I am too far from any other power source to run long lines.


Yes it does matter what the draw is at start up... The thing to do is buy a Kill A watt meter and see what the draw actually is...


Also remember you'll need enough reserve power to run a 4000w inverter and it's draw what ever it is....


This won't make a difference with you after thinking about it but it might.... My system stays on 24/7 because of several items... You can cut yours off when you leave I guess?


An inverter uses a good bit of power even when your not using it...


That's why I have a 500w and a 2000w inverter...


My Xantrex ProWatt 2000 uses <800mA with no load

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:40am

playersz28 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:17am playersz28 said:

My Xantrex ProWatt 2000 uses <800mA with no load


That's awesome, I'm thinking my 500w uses .58 and the 2000w is 1.28 I think that's right.. It's been a while since I looked at it.....


Do you have very much of a load 24/7?


I just looked, That's a nice looking inverter....


Posted by Jim

Sep 13, 2018 at 9:47am

I have a similar situation. My storage shed is in a non-leased portion of the backyard of a rental property. So, it is off of the grid. I use it once every week or two to run saws, etc. I also have cameras, internet access, a computer, and amateur radio equipment in the shed for (hopefully) a remote radio station. I have a backup generator. But, I want to be able to turn air conditioning on (500W, 6000BTU unit) remotely for a couple of hours before I arrive and start the generator.

I ended up with a 3000W inverter. I found out quickly that the inverter is the largest power consumer over the long haul.

Currently, I have a 450AH reserve battery, a 40A Renogy MPPT controller, and 8 very old solar panels that a friend found in the garbage. I put new connectors on them and their voltage checks out. They are each about 10x30 inches. In full sun, they each put out about 0.75A at 12V. Not real hot. So, I want to replace them with 100W Renogy panels.

The problem is that half of the shed is shaded in the afternoon. I cannot do much about the shading. So, I would like to install the new Renogy panels in parallel to minimize issues with half of the panels sometimes being shaded. Running large wire is not an issue.

Question: I have room for 8 panels. 8 panels would be capable of producing more than 40A in full sun (mornings.) But, in the afternoon, their combined output would likely 40A or less. Starting 2 hours before sunset, the shade is 80%. -- During the morning, will the controller limit the current to 40A?

Obviously, the alternative is to go down to 4 or 5 panels so that current can never be more than 40A. But, then, afternoon current would be much less.

Jim

Posted by grumpy

Sep 13, 2018 at 12:04pm


Sep 13, 2018 at 9:47am Jim said:




I have a similar situation. My storage shed is in a non-leased portion of the backyard of a rental property. So, it is off of the grid. I use it once every week or two to run saws, etc. I also have cameras, internet access, a computer, and amateur radio equipment in the shed for (hopefully) a remote radio station. I have a backup generator. But, I want to be able to turn air conditioning on (500W, 6000BTU unit) remotely for a couple of hours before I arrive and start the generator.

I ended up with a 3000W inverter. I found out quickly that the inverter is the largest power consumer over the long haul.

Currently, I have a 450AH reserve battery, a 40A Renogy MPPT controller, and 8 very old solar panels that a friend found in the garbage. I put new connectors on them and their voltage checks out. They are each about 10x30 inches. In full sun, they each put out about 0.75A at 12V. Not real hot. So, I want to replace them with 100W Renogy panels.

The problem is that half of the shed is shaded in the afternoon. I cannot do much about the shading. So, I would like to install the new Renogy panels in parallel to minimize issues with half of the panels sometimes being shaded. Running large wire is not an issue.

Question: I have room for 8 panels. 8 panels would be capable of producing more than 40A in full sun (mornings.) But, in the afternoon, their combined output would likely 40A or less. Starting 2 hours before sunset, the shade is 80%. -- During the morning, will the controller limit the current to 40A?

Obviously, the alternative is to go down to 4 or 5 panels so that current can never be more than 40A. But, then, afternoon current would be much less.

Jim


I have the 40 amp Commander with 5 100 watt panels.

This might help:
Rated Charge Power
520W @ 12V
1040W @ 24V


Max PV Array Power
1560W @ 12V
3120W @ 24V 

Posted by Jim

Sep 13, 2018 at 12:18pm

I am not following you at all. 12V at 40A is 480W.

You cannot expect more than 425W or so, max, out of five 100W panels. So, it seems like you will never exceed 40A.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 1:48pm

I ran 8 100w panels with a 40a CC just like yours.... 4 and 4 in series and then them in parallel and it ran just fine... I think the only thing you would have to worry about is in the winter it might charge to much..... But depending on the angle of your panels and the time in the sun because of the shade...

Oh yea you can forget about running the AC off of what your describing... It will be way to much load...

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 1:54pm


Sep 13, 2018 at 9:47am Jim said:



 I ended up with a 3000W inverter. I found out quickly that the inverter is the largest power consumer over the long haul.



That's what I keep telling people but they seem to incest on running a large inverter for some reason..... You don't need to run/buy an inverter any larger than your system can handle the load.... It's a waste of money and a waste of power.....

Posted by jrh613

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:06pm

tattoo Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 1:48pm tattoo said:

I ran 8 100w panels with a 40a CC just like yours.... 4 and 4 in series and then them in parallel and it ran just fine... I think the only thing you would have to worry about is in the winter it might charge to much..... But depending on the angle of your panels and the time in the sun because of the shade...

Oh yea you can forget about running the AC off of what your describing... It will be way to much load...


4 in series and 4 in parallel would cut the current in 1/4. So, that's why you would not exceed 40A in that situation. You will not even exceed 20A.

With eight100W panels, why would running a 500W AC for an hour or so each week exceed the capabilities of the system? The battery will certainly handle that much load; I already tested it for 90 minutes without solar panels/controller. And eight 100 watt panels should replenish the battery in an hour or so. (?) Or am I missing something?


Jim 

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 4:02pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:06pm jrh613 said:

4 in series and 4 in parallel would cut the current in 1/4.  So, that's why you would not exceed 40A in that situation.   You will not even exceed 20A.

With eight100W panels, why would running a 500W AC for an hour or so each week exceed the capabilities of the system? The battery will certainly handle that much load; I already tested it for 90 minutes without solar panels/controller. And eight 100 watt panels should replenish the battery in an hour or so. (?) Or am I missing something?


Jim 


I said 4 and 4 in series and then those in parallel.... Read what I said...


So you have one battery? What kind? You said it has 450ah what is the CCA?


Most people run the AC more than an hour a week.. You said 2 hours before you got there before, you didn't say you were going to cut it off when you got to the shed.... But you do have a generator to crank up...


 

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 4:14pm


Sep 13, 2018 at 9:47am Jim said:


 My storage shed is in a non-leased portion of the backyard of a rental property. So, it is off of the grid. I use it once every week or two to run saws, etc. I also have cameras, internet access, a computer, and amateur radio equipment in the shed for (hopefully) a remote radio station. I have a backup generator. But, I want to be able to turn air conditioning on (500W, 6000BTU unit) remotely for a couple of hours before I arrive and start the generator.
 Jim


Jim in your first post you said you wanted to run all of the above now your focusing on just the AC.... Which is it?


If you think you can run all of that have at it..... At least you have access to a generator.....

Posted by bupkis

Sep 13, 2018 at 5:12pm

4 100w panels in series is ~5A x ~60-75v, parallel another 4 in series and ya get ~10A x ~60-70v. Do not confuse input limits with battery charge limits.

An mppt controller takes that ~10A x ~70v and converts it to battery voltage for charging with amps ~45A or so (depending on batt voltage).

Some mppt controllers can be overpowered and the controller clips excess current, ie a 40A controller with 1000w and the controller clips the battery charging current to 40A and the rest is wasted anytime excess is made.

As grumpy showed, that controller can be overpower to 1500w @ 12v.

Posted by jrh613

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:15pm

tattoo Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 4:14pm tattoo said:


Sep 13, 2018 at 9:47am Jim said:



 My storage shed is in a non-leased portion of the backyard of a rental property. So, it is off of the grid. I use it once every week or two to run saws, etc. I also have cameras, internet access, a computer, and amateur radio equipment in the shed for (hopefully) a remote radio station. I have a backup generator. But, I want to be able to turn air conditioning on (500W, 6000BTU unit) remotely for a couple of hours before I arrive and start the generator.
 Jim


Jim in your first post you said you wanted to run all of the above now your focusing on just the AC.... Which is it?


If you think you can run all of that have at it..... At least you have access to a generator.....


You are not reading carefully... Everything besides the air conditioner runs all of the time. The air conditioner runs for a couple of hours before I arrive and can start the generator. That would happen every week or two.

A 500W air condition running for a couple of hours would draw 1KW.  It seems that would be quickly replaced in the batteries by 8 solar panels.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Posted by jrh613

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:23pm

I am sorry; I understood.  I just made a typo.  And, yes, that cuts your current down by 1/4 of what it would be if all were in parallel.

The battery is an Interstate 8 D - M H D. (Sorry for the spaces. The forum program interprets the P/N as a smiley face otherwise.) --- It is a huge battery. 1400 CCA, to answer your question. However, the reserve capacity is the important number for solar. I do not think you will find a larger battery than this.

The shed is an hour away. It is well ventilated and insulated with R60 insulation on all 6 sides. So, its inside temperature hovers pretty close to the average 24 hour temperature. (I.e., 80 degree nights and 100 degree days yields a shed that stays around 90.) No need for AC for the electronics. -- Turn the AC on remotely for an hour would get the inside down to 75-80 degrees. Then, I could start the generator when I got there.

tattoo Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 4:02pm tattoo said:

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:06pm jrh613 said:

4 in series and 4 in parallel would cut the current in 1/4.  So, that's why you would not exceed 40A in that situation.   You will not even exceed 20A.

With eight100W panels, why would running a 500W AC for an hour or so each week exceed the capabilities of the system? The battery will certainly handle that much load; I already tested it for 90 minutes without solar panels/controller. And eight 100 watt panels should replenish the battery in an hour or so. (?) Or am I missing something?


Jim 


I said 4 and 4 in series and then those in parallel.... Read what I said...


So you have one battery? What kind? You said it has 450ah what is the CCA?


Most people run the AC more than an hour a week.. You said 2 hours before you got there before, you didn't say you were going to cut it off when you got to the shed.... But you do have a generator to crank up...


 


Posted by jrh613

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:26pm

Ok.  This answers my question.  Thanks!

One followup, though... Grumpy gave numbers for the Commander. But, is the Rover similar? I have the 40A Rover.

bupkis Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 5:12pm bupkis said:

4 100w panels in series is ~5A x ~60-75v, parallel another 4 in series and ya get ~10A x ~60-70v. Do not confuse input limits with battery charge limits.

An mppt controller takes that ~10A x ~70v and converts it to battery voltage for charging with amps ~45A or so (depending on batt voltage).

Some mppt controllers can be overpowered and the controller clips excess current, ie a 40A controller with 1000w and the controller clips the battery charging current to 40A and the rest is wasted anytime excess is made.

As grumpy showed, that controller can be overpower to 1500w @ 12v.


Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:29pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:26pm jrh613 said:

Ok.  This answers my question.  Thanks!

One followup, though... Grumpy gave numbers for the Commander. But, is the Rover similar? I have the 40A Rover.


Yes it will be similar...

Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:32pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:23pm jrh613 said:

 The battery is an Interstate 8D-MHD. It is a huge battery. 1400 CCA, to answer your question. However, the reserve capacity is the important number for solar. I do not think you will find a larger battery than this.


Yep as I thought it's an automotive battery... One battery... But that's fine it's a big one...


It sounds like you have everything figured out....

Hope it works out for you...



Oh by the way they make much larger batteries and more appropriate for solar than yours...

Posted by bupkis

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:55pm

Not sure that is confined that it can be overpower like the tracer (commander), ie it is not clear from the manual.

A single 8 D is 400ah? more like 220ah.
jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:26pm jrh613 said:

Ok.  This answers my question.  Thanks!

One followup, though... Grumpy gave numbers for the Commander. But, is the Rover similar? I have the 40A Rover.

bupkis Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 5:12pm bupkis said:

4 100w panels in series is ~5A x ~60-75v, parallel another 4 in series and ya get ~10A x ~60-70v. Do not confuse input limits with battery charge limits.

An mppt controller takes that ~10A x ~70v and converts it to battery voltage for charging with amps ~45A or so (depending on batt voltage).

Some mppt controllers can be overpowered and the controller clips excess current, ie a 40A controller with 1000w and the controller clips the battery charging current to 40A and the rest is wasted anytime excess is made.

As grumpy showed, that controller can be overpower to 1500w @ 12v.


Posted by jrh613

Sep 13, 2018 at 8:27pm

I need to learn to type. :-)  Not 400AH.  It has a reserve capacity of 450.  That means that at 25A and nominal temperature, it can produce current for 450 minutes.  My understanding is that it is a good idea not to exceed about half of that.

So, yes, 220AH is probably a good guess. Maybe a little less.

I am a bit confused by tattoo's claim that there are better batteries. There are some that have longer life. But, $ per AH... I picked the 8 D up for $232, including tax. So, its cost is about $1 per AH.

bupkis Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:55pm bupkis said:

Not sure that is confined that it can be overpower like the tracer (commander), ie it is not clear from the manual.

A single 8 D is 400ah? more like 220ah.
jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:26pm jrh613 said:

Ok.  This answers my question.  Thanks!

One followup, though... Grumpy gave numbers for the Commander. But, is the Rover similar? I have the 40A Rover.



Posted by tattoo

Sep 13, 2018 at 8:36pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 8:27pm jrh613 said:

 I am a bit confused by tattoo's claim that there are better batteries.  There are some that have longer life.  But, $ per AH...  I picked the 8 D up for $232, including tax.  So, its cost is about $1 per AH. However, the reserve capacity is the important number for solar. I do not think you will find a larger battery than this.


Sure they make much larger and much better batteries for solar.... What you have is an automotive Battery...


Just because you spent a lot of money on that car battery doesn't make it the best battery for solar...


Like I said you seem to have it all figured out...


Good luck

Posted by jrh613

Sep 14, 2018 at 4:56am

Maybe you would like to share, then...

tattoo Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 8:36pm tattoo said:

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 8:27pm jrh613 said:

 I am a bit confused by tattoo's claim that there are better batteries.  There are some that have longer life.  But, $ per AH...  I picked the 8 D up for $232, including tax.  So, its cost is about $1 per AH. However, the reserve capacity is the important number for solar. I do not think you will find a larger battery than this.


Sure they make much larger and much better batteries for solar.... What you have is an automotive Battery...


Just because you spent a lot of money on that car battery doesn't make it the best battery for solar...


Like I said you seem to have it all figured out...


Good luck


Posted by tattoo

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:13am

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 4:56am jrh613 said:

Maybe you would like to share, then...


No need you seem to know everything about solar already,


Have a good one...

Posted by bupkis

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:23am

jrh613, your run of the mill golf car battery from sams/costco. Thick plates, designed for cycle life, They won't be able to deliver the current you starting battery will. I believe interstate now carries Trojan 6v golf car batteries, a good choice for cycle service. Shop batteries that have an ah rating, consult your local interstae store.

Keep you discharges low, charge FULLY regularly and you'll get good life out of your battery, if there is sun when you use the inverter the battery may not see any discharge!!!

Posted by tattoo

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:24am

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:06pm jrh613 said:

With eight100W panels, why would running a 500W AC for an hour or so each week exceed the capabilities of the system?  The battery will certainly handle that much load; I already tested it for 90 minutes without solar panels/controller.  And eight 100 watt panels should replenish the battery in an hour or so.  (?)  Or am I missing something?
Jim 


See the above proves you have Solar figured out and what it can do.....


With everything in your shed running and the AC for an hour or two with one large car battery and you can charge it in 90 min or so.... I say yes your missing something......


Good luck....

Posted by jrh613

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:41am

Thank you, bupkis.  I appreciate the golf car battery suggestion and will look into them.  I would like to add more capacity in the future and want to pick the best option.

bupkis Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:23am bupkis said:

jrh613, your run of the mill golf car battery from sams/costco. Thick plates, designed for cycle life, They won't be able to deliver the current you starting battery will. I believe interstate now carries Trojan 6v golf car batteries, a good choice for cycle service. Shop batteries that have an ah rating, consult your local interstae store.

Keep you discharges low, charge FULLY regularly and you'll get good life out of your battery, if there is sun when you use the inverter the battery may not see any discharge!!!


Posted by jrh613

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:45am

Wow.  Ok.  So, if you are not able to help, that's fine.  Several other posters have been able to make positive contributions about controllers, battery types, etc., that could help me and the original poster.

Your comments remind me of the good old days of Usenet groups.

tattoo Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:24am tattoo said:

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 2:06pm jrh613 said:

With eight100W panels, why would running a 500W AC for an hour or so each week exceed the capabilities of the system?  The battery will certainly handle that much load; I already tested it for 90 minutes without solar panels/controller.  And eight 100 watt panels should replenish the battery in an hour or so.  (?)  Or am I missing something?
Jim 


See the above proves you have Solar figured out and what it can do.....


With everything in your shed running and the AC for an hour or two with one large car battery and you can charge it in 90 min or so.... I say yes your missing something......


Good luck....


Posted by tattoo

Sep 14, 2018 at 6:12am

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 5:45am jrh613 said:

Wow.  Ok.  So, if you are not able to help, that's fine.  Several other posters have been able to make positive contributions about controllers, battery types, etc., that could help me and the original poster.

Your comments remind me of the good old days of Usenet groups.


See in the beginning I was trying to help you and understand your problem... But when you started asking questions that you already knew the answer to because you had already figured it out I didn't see any reason to try and help you.... Remember you have the biggest and the best.....


But at least me not helping has got you to start listing to people...


Yea I remember the good old days and like back then, I'm not here to hold your hand..... Were here to help...


Good luck....

Posted by bupkis

Sep 14, 2018 at 8:16am

jrh613, lots of pros and cons and compromises, as I suggested if you use 500w while making 600w there is an excess to charge the battery or be wasted!

Posted by Admin

Sep 14, 2018 at 12:37pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 6:26pm jrh613 said:

Ok.  This answers my question.  Thanks!

One followup, though... Grumpy gave numbers for the Commander. But, is the Rover similar? I have the 40A Rover.

bupkis Avatar

Sep 13, 2018 at 5:12pm bupkis said:

4 100w panels in series is ~5A x ~60-75v, parallel another 4 in series and ya get ~10A x ~60-70v. Do not confuse input limits with battery charge limits.

An mppt controller takes that ~10A x ~70v and converts it to battery voltage for charging with amps ~45A or so (depending on batt voltage).

Some mppt controllers can be overpowered and the controller clips excess current, ie a 40A controller with 1000w and the controller clips the battery charging current to 40A and the rest is wasted anytime excess is made.

As grumpy showed, that controller can be overpower to 1500w @ 12v.





Only the Commander has the ratings for accepting higher PV power at the specifications mentioned. The Rover does not. This diagram is from Page 11 on the Commander manual.

-Renogy Team



Attachments:

cmd40.JPG

Posted by Admin

Sep 14, 2018 at 2:15pm

jrh613 Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 2:08pm jrh613 said:

Admin,

Are you saying that, for the Rover, I would be limited to four 100 watt panels (400W) since 12V at 40A is 480W?

In that case, why are you selling an 800W kit with a 40A Rover controller on Amazon?

www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTHH3RK/ref=psdc_2236628011_t2_B0747NXTZR





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Sep 14, 2018 at 12:37pm Admin said:

Only the Commander has the ratings for accepting higher PV power at the specifications mentioned. The Rover does not. This diagram is from Page 11 on the Commander manual.

-Renogy Team





The maximum input ratings for the Rover 40 is 520W at 12V.

www.renogy.com/template/files/Specifications/Rover%20203040.pdf


Listed on page 23 of the manual.

In regards to the listing, it is 24V for 600W/800W.


-Renogy Team

Posted by playersz28

Sep 14, 2018 at 3:12pm

So if you run a 500w continuous load for the A/C that's about 42A out of the battery in an hr, add in for conversion losses and call it 45A. A 225AH battery will be good for 2.5hrs with no other loads and no charge input. If you have 600w of panels running maybe 85% efficient in full sun then you should be able to almost keep up with the A/C. With it running any other loads will deplete the battery. Maybe my numbers are all wrong though or maybe this is what you figured already.

Posted by tattoo

Sep 14, 2018 at 3:54pm

playersz28 Avatar

Sep 14, 2018 at 3:12pm playersz28 said:

So if you run a 500w continuous load for the A/C that's about 42A out of the battery in an hr, add in for conversion losses and call it 45A. A 225AH battery will be good for 2.5hrs with no other loads and no charge input. If you have 600w of panels running maybe 85% efficient in full sun then you should be able to almost keep up with the A/C. With it running any other loads will deplete the battery. Maybe my numbers are all wrong though or maybe this is what you figured already.


I believe your numbers are very close to correct in full sun like you said..... But he has the same problem I have..... Shade from trees and that's a HUGE problem.....

Posted by bupkis

Sep 14, 2018 at 4:27pm

jrh613, might read this manual www.solar-elektro.cz/data/dokumenty/2144_srne_ml_1.pdf

see page 19, section 4.1, the second feature is "input limit power protection".

I think the rover40 is the ML2440

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